NPR News:教皇弗朗西斯认为天主教会应向同性恋群体道歉

Pope Francis says the Catholic Church should seek forgiveness for its mistreatment of people who are gay. He made that and other comments on a plane. He was holding an airborne press conference on his return from a visit to Armenia. And NPR's Sylvia Poggioli was on board that plane. She's on the line now. Hi, Sylvia.
教皇弗朗西斯表示，天主教会应为错误地对待同性恋者而寻求原谅。他在飞机上表达了这些观点。他在结束亚美尼亚之行飞回罗马的途中举行了一场空中记者会。NPR新闻的西尔维亚·波焦利参加了在飞机上举行的那场记者会。她将和我们连线。你好，西尔维亚。

SYLVIA POGGIOLI, BYLINE: Hi, Steve.
西尔维亚·波焦利连线：你好，史蒂夫。

INSKEEP: What exactly did the pope say?
因斯基普：教皇都说了些什么？

POGGIOLI: Well, he was asked if he agreed with comments by his close adviser Cardinal Reinhard Marx acknowledging the church's mistreatment of gays, particularly in light of the recent massacre at the gay nightclub in Orlando. At the mention of Orlando, the pope looked pained. He closed his eyes and shook his head in dismay. And he said...
波焦利：他被问到是否同意关系密切的顾问赖因哈德·马克思枢机主教的言论，马克思承认天主教会错误地对待了同性恋者，最近奥兰多同性恋夜店发生的屠杀事件尤为明显。在提到奥兰多事件时，教皇看起来很痛苦。他闭上了眼睛，沮丧地摇着头。他说……

POPE FRANCIS: (Foreign language spoken).
教皇弗朗西斯：（用外语讲话）。

POGGIOLI: "I think the church has to apologize not only to the gay person it has offended, but also to the poor, to women who are exploited, to children forced into labor and for having blessed so many weapons in the past."
波焦利：“我认为天主教会必须道歉，不仅应该向过去曾经被他们冒犯过的同性恋者道歉，而且还应向那些贫穷的人，被剥削的妇女和被迫劳动的孩童们道歉，同时还要为过去容忍这么多武器而道歉。”

INSKEEP: How does this fit in with other things that the pope has said about gay people?
因斯基普：这一说法与教皇此前就同性恋问题的表态相符吗？

POGGIOLI: Well, you know, in 2013, shortly after he was elected, he uttered one of the defining quotes of his papacy. And yesterday, he repeated that statement just switching it to the plural.
波焦利：2013年，教皇当选后不久，他就说出了他的观点。昨天，他再次重申了他的态度，不过这次用的是复数。

POPE FRANCIS: (Foreign language spoken).
教皇弗朗西斯：（用外语讲话）。

POGGIOLI: "If a person in that situation has good will and is looking for God, who are we to judge?" Last time, he said who am I to judge, but this time he's speaking for the church. Now, the pope also said that some cultures have different attitudes toward gays and some gay pride demonstrations are perhaps over the top for some people. However, that does not justify marginalization of gays. But, you know, however welcoming his attitude is, it does not mean the Catholic Church is likely to change soon its teachings that while homosexual tendencies are not sinful, homosexual acts are.
波焦利：“如果一个人是同性恋，他们怀着善心追寻上帝，那么我们有什么资格去评断他们?”上次，他说的是我有什么资格，而这次他是代表教会讲话，所以他用了复数。教皇还表示，一些文化对同性恋者持不同的态度，可能有些人认为同性恋大骄傲游行有些过了。但是，这不能为同性恋边缘化辩解。无论他有多欢迎同性恋者，天主教会也不可能马上改变教义，天主教教义认为，同性恋倾向没有罪，但是同性恋行为是罪。

INSKEEP: I guess we should mention that this is a little bit off the news — these remarks about gays and lesbians — a little bit off the news that the pope intended to make because he was visiting Armenia, as we said, and reignited tensions with Turkey by talking about a genocide. What was he saying?
因斯基普：我想我们要指出这是不太好的消息，教皇计划就男女同性恋问题表态，他在访问亚美尼亚时因为提到了种族灭绝，再次引发同土耳其的紧张关系。他当时说了什么？

POGGIOLI: Well, you know, the word genocide had not been included in the prepared text of the pope's speech at the Armenian presidential palace. And when he was asked why he added it, he said in Argentina that's the word that's used. He said while he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, he made many friends in the large Armenian community. And he said it would have sounded strange for him not to use that word.
波焦利：教皇在亚美尼亚总统府进行了演讲，种族灭绝一词本来不包括在他的演讲稿中。在被问到为什么他加入了这个词时，他说阿根廷用的就是这个词。他说在他担任布宜诺斯艾利斯大主教时，他在亚美尼亚社区交了很多朋友。如果不使用种族灭绝这个词，他觉得很奇怪。

INSKEEP: And this is a World War I-era episode in which 1.5 million or so Armenians were killed, right?
因斯基普：第一次世界大战期间，有约150万名亚美尼亚人被杀害，对吧？

POGGIOLI: That's right. And Turkey rejects the genocide label. And yesterday, the Deputy Prime Minister Nurettin Canikli said the pope's words reflect the mentality of the Crusades. The Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi rejected the accusation.
波焦利：没错。土耳其拒绝种族灭绝这一标签。昨天，土耳其副总理Nurettin Canikli表示，教皇所使用的词反映了十字军东征的心态。梵蒂冈发言人费德里科·隆巴迪神父驳回了这种说法。

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
（录音档案）

FEDERICO LOMBARDI: If someone listened to the pope or reads what the pope has written or has said, there is nothing of a spirit of crusade. This is spirit of dialogue, of building peace, of building bridges and not walls.
费德里科·隆巴迪：如果认真听了教皇的讲话就会发现，里面并没有任何十字军东征思想。教皇讲话的精神是对话、构建和平、搭建桥梁而不是建造高墙。

INSKEEP: Did the pope talk about the very biggest news of the last few days, Britain's vote to leave the European Union?
因斯基普：教皇有谈到英国投票退出欧盟这一大事件吗？

POGGIOLI: Oh, yes, he did. And, you know, the pope is a strong believer in a united Europe. He said unity is always superior to conflict. But he admitted that the European Union has lost its way.
波焦利：有，他谈到了。教皇是统一欧洲的坚定支持者。他说，团结优于冲突。不过他也承认，欧盟迷失了方向。

POPE FRANCIS: (Foreign language spoken).
教皇弗朗西斯：（用外语讲话）。

POGGIOLI: "There is something that doesn't work in that unwieldy Union, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The two key words for the European Union are creativity and fruitfulness. That's the challenge." So, you know, once again Pope Francis has shown that he's not afraid to speak bluntly and tell it like it is.
波焦利：“在笨拙的欧盟有些事行不通，不过我们不能不分良莠全部抛弃。对欧盟来说，两大关键词是创造性和丰硕的成果。这就是挑战。”教皇弗朗西斯再次展现出他不惧直言、实话实说的一面。

INSKEEP: NPR's Sylvia Poggioli, now back in Rome. Sylvia, thanks.
因斯基普：以上是NPR新闻的西尔维亚·波焦利从罗马带来的报道。西尔维亚，谢谢你。

POGGIOLI: Thank you, Steve.
波焦利：谢谢你，史蒂夫。