英语访谈节目:主张反税的罗弗·诺奎斯特把平衡的方法比作粉红独角兽

JUDY WOODRUFF:Negotiators in Washington signaled publicly today that there had been little progress in reaching a deal to avert the fiscal cliff with 19 days to go until a year-end deadline.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, R-Ohio: I remain the most optimistic person in this town. But we have got some serious differences.

JUDY WOODRUFF:That downbeat assessment from House Speaker John Boehner came after he and President Obama traded fresh offers this week.

JOHN BOEHNER:We spoke honestly and openly about the differences that we face. But the president's called for $1.4 trillion worth of revenue. That cannot pass the House or the Senate.

JUDY WOODRUFF:The president originally sought $1.6 trillion in revenue over 10 years, before lowering his target to $1.4 trillion. The money would come from raising rates on the top 2 percent of wage earners and curbing loopholes.

Boehner's counter was little changed, $800 billion in revenues from closing loopholes and capping deductions, but no rate hikes.

Republicans have also demanded entitlement reform, and in a Tuesday interview, the president wouldn't rule out raising the Medicare eligibility age by two years, to 67.

Today, his White House spokesman, Jay Carney, summed up.

JAY CARNEY, White House: He is willing to make tough choices. And he has made clear and specified the spending cuts that he is willing to make. And he has said that he is willing to go further as part of a broader deficit reduction plan. But he will not extend the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

JUDY WOODRUFF:Despite the apparent stalemate, House Republicans pledged to keep at it.

REP. ERIC CANTORR-Va.: We're going to stay here right up until Christmas Eve, throughout the time and period before the new year, because we want to make sure that we resolve this in an acceptable way for the American people.

JUDY WOODRUFF:But House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi fired back that Republicans are the ones holding everything up.

REP. NANCY PELOSI,D-Calif.: If we were waiting for something, you could say it's well worth the wait. But we're just -- the Republicans are just delaying.

JUDY WOODRUFF:And Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke warned again that delay is dangerous.

BEN BERNANKE, Federal Reserve chairman: Even though we're not yet even reached the point of the fiscal cliff potentially kicking in, it's already affecting business investment and hiring decisions by creating uncertainty or creating pessimism.

JUDY WOODRUFF:All of which threatened to cast a pall over the holidays, at the Capitol, and just about everywhere else.

And that brings us to our continuing series of conversations on this topic -- tonight, one of the more outspoken voices against raising taxes.

Grover Norquist is a conservative lobbyist and the president of Americans for Tax Reform. Most famously, he's known for getting many elected Republicans to sign a pledge not to raise taxes. But now some lawmakers are suggesting they may be willing to change their position.

Grover Norquist, welcome to the program.

GROVER NORQUIST, Americans for Tax Reform: Good to be with you.

JUDY WOODRUFF:And, in fact, there are a growing number of Republicans who are saying either they have renounced that pledge or they may be prepared to renounce it in order to deal with the serious fiscal problem facing the country.

GROVER NORQUIST:Well, interestingly, the problem we have is too much spending. And so the only solution to spending too much is spending less.

We don't have a problem with not enough in terms of tax revenue coming in. The problem is government spends too much. So raising taxes is what politicians do, instead of reducing spending. That's the argument Boehner's having with the president of the United States. The president wants higher taxes. Boehner would like less spending.

JUDY WOODRUFF:Well, I'm sure you know a number of economists talk about the importance of a balanced approach. It was what was in the Bowles-Simpson commission report.

But let me ask you about not only the exit polls on Election Day, but poll after poll since the election shows distinct majority -- of elections -- say they believe that it's the right thing to raise taxes on income over $250,000 a year if that's what it takes to deal with the deficit. Why are those people wrong?