NPR News:乍得前总统哈布雷因以战争罪等罪名被判处终身监禁

A historic verdict in Africa today — the ex-president of Chad, Hissene Habre, was convicted of war crimes in a trial in Senegal. Reed Brody of Human Rights Watch has been involved in this case for 17 years. He joins us now via Skype. And a warning to listeners — some details in this story may be hard to listen to. Welcome to the program.
今天，非洲做出了一项历史性裁决，塞内加尔一家法庭判处乍得前总统侯赛因•哈布雷战争罪罪名成立。17年来，人权观察组织的里德•布罗迪一直致力于这起案件。他将通过Skype和我们连线。我们要提醒听众，本篇新闻的一些细节可能会令听众感到不适。欢迎做客节目。

REED BRODY: Thank you, Ari.
里德•布罗迪：谢谢你，阿里。

SHAPIRO: Described first what he was convicted of.
夏皮罗：首先请你描述一下他被判处的罪名。

BRODY: Habre was accused, now convicted, of political killings, a systematic torture, of waves of ethnic cleansing. He was also convicted of having used women as sexual slaves for his army. He was convicted actually of having personally raped one woman four times. The charges were crimes against humanity or crimes and torture.
布罗迪：哈布雷在审判中被判犯有政治谋杀、酷刑、种族清洗罪。他还犯有将女性用作军队性奴的罪名。另外，他个人也曾对一名女性实施过四次强奸。指控罪名包括反人类罪和酷刑罪。

SHAPIRO: This verdict is historic for a number of reasons. Talk about what makes it so significant.
夏皮罗：基于一些原因，这项判决是历史性的。和我们说说这项裁决的重要意义。

BRODY: Well, it's the first time anywhere in the world that the courts of one country — Senegal — have prosecuted and now convicted the leader of another country — Chad — for human rights crimes. It's also the first time that victims, survivors have really banded together in this way to fight internationally for justice.
You know, one of the people next to me was Souleymane Guengueng who, as people were dying around him in his cell, took an oath that if he ever got out, he would fight for justice. And then when he did, he organized the Victims Association.
One of the stars of this trial was Jacqueline Moudeina, the victims' lead lawyer who survived an assassination attempt by a former Habre police chief. And as she presented her arguments and examined witnesses in court, she still has shrapnel in her leg from that assassination attempt 15 years ago. So this was a very determined and courageous group of people I've had the privilege to work with for these 17 years.
布罗迪：这是世界上首次有一个国家的法庭——塞内加尔法庭，起诉并判处另一个国家——乍得的领导人犯有人权罪。这也是受害者和幸存者联合起来，首次在国际上为正义斗争。
在我旁边的是Souleymane Guengueng，和他在一个牢房的人们濒临死亡时，他发誓如果他能出狱，他就会为正义而战。他出狱以后成立了受害者协会。
出席庭审的其中一个著名人物是受害者的代表律师杰奎琳•姆得娜，她在哈布雷政府前警察局长制造的暗杀中幸存了下来。她在庭上进行陈述和询问证人，其实她的腿里还残留着15年前那起暗杀行动的弹片。我有幸能和这样一群坚定又勇敢的人共事了17年。

SHAPIRO: Is this a verdict that he can appeal? Is there a sentencing phase? What happens now?
夏皮罗：这项裁决可以上诉吗？法庭有宣布刑期吗？现在情况怎么样？

BRODY: Yeah, of course. Habre doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the court. He was actually dragged into court kicking and screaming. He had court-appointed lawyers who were very active in defending his interests. And the assumption is that those court-appointed lawyers will appeal on his behalf. And Habre's in jail. He's been in jail now for over two years during the trial.
布罗迪：当然可以。哈布雷不承认这家法庭的合法性。他被拖进法庭时四处乱踢，不停喊叫。法庭指派了律师给他，这些律师为他辩护时表现活跃。我们认为这些指派律师会以哈布雷的名义上诉。哈布雷已经被关进监狱。在审判期间，哈布雷已经入狱超过两年。

SHAPIRO: Do you expect this will have repercussions in other parts of Africa where there may be current or former dictators who have not been held accountable for their crimes?
夏皮罗：你认为这一判决会对非洲其他地方产生影响吗？非洲还有现任或前任独裁者没有为他们所犯的罪行承担责任。

BRODY: Well, we certainly hope so. I mean, on the one hand, this is a message to leaders that if they commit atrocities, they won't be out of the reach of their victims. But even more importantly, it's a message of hope. We've gotten messages of support from all over Africa and all over the world, actually — people who look at what the Chadians victims did and think, well, you know, maybe we can do that.
It shows that survivors with tenacity and with perseverance can actually fight and create the political conditions to bring their dictator to justice and even in Africa. So the hope is that other survivors, other activists will look at what Habre's victims have been able to do here and say, well, you know, maybe we can fight for justice.
布罗迪：我们当然希望如此。一方面，这项裁决向领导人传达了一个信息，如果他们犯下暴行，受害者是不会放过他们的。但是更重要的是，这也是一份希望。我们得到了全非洲和全世界的支持，人们看到乍得受害者所做的一切时可能会想，我们也应该这么做。
这表明，坚韧、有毅力的幸存者会站起来斗争，即使是在非洲，他们也会创造出将独裁者绳之以法的政治条件。希望在于，其他幸存者和活动人士在看到遭遇哈布雷虐待的受害者做到的事时会说，我们也应该为正义而战。

SHAPIRO: Although you've been working on this case for 17 years. That is a long path to justice.
夏皮罗：虽然你为这个案子努力了17年。但是通往正义的道路太漫长了。

BRODY: Well, you know, unfortunately, that's what it often takes. I was at the trial recently in Guatemala of the former dictator Efrain Rios Montt. It took his victims 30 years to bring him to justice. The Khmer Rouge are only being tried now.
I mean, obviously, you know, justice delayed is, as they say, justice denied in many ways. And many of the people who started this who I knew 17 years ago who filed the first case are no longer with us. But this shows that justice is possible, and maybe next time, it won't take so long.
布罗迪：不幸的是，这类案件通常都需要很长时间。最近我出席了危地马拉前独裁者埃弗拉因•里奥斯•蒙特的庭审。受害者用了30年的时间才将他绳之以法。红色高棉刚刚开始受审。
显然，正义被延迟了，如他们所说，在许多方面正义都被拒绝了。17年前首次提起诉讼的工作人员现在已经不再和我们一起工作。但是这项裁决表明，正义还是存在的，也许下次不会再用这么长时间了。

SHAPIRO: Reed Brody is council and spokesperson for Human Rights Watch and joined us from Dakar, Senegal. Thank you very much for your time, and congratulations on your victory.
夏皮罗：里德•布罗迪是人权观察组织的顾问兼发言人，他从塞内加尔达喀尔和我们进行了连线。非常谢谢你抽出时间和我们连线，祝贺你们获得的胜利。

BRODY: (Laughter) Thank you so much. It's a great victory.
布罗迪：（笑）非常谢谢你。这是一次伟大的胜利。