美国堕胎药的对立裁决引发法律之争(下)

In the meantime, what does this mean for states where abortion is still legal, or states like Washington, Massachusetts, California, where officials have said that they're now stockpiling mifepristone?

与此同时，华盛顿州、马萨诸塞州、加利福尼亚州曾表示他们现在正在囤积米非司酮（口服堕胎药）。对这几个堕胎仍然合法的州来说，这意味着什么？

Yes, I mean, we're likely to see more legal uncertainty there.

是，我们可能会看到更多的法律不确定性。

I mean, obviously, in the short term, we have this order from Judge Rice essentially telling the FDA to preserve access to mifepristone in those locations.

很明显，在短期内，我们收到了赖斯法官的命令，基本上是通知FDA(美国食品和药物管理局)保留在这些地点使用米非司酮的权利。

But Judge Kacsmaryk's ruling has signaled that there are strategies available to the anti-abortion movement that could block access to mifepristone in blue states, as well as red and purple states.

但卡斯马利克法官的裁决表明，反堕胎运动可以采取一些策略，阻止蓝州(民主党主导州)、红州（共和党主导州）以及紫州(摇摆州)使用米非司酮。

And so you're seeing preliminary steps by blue states to really to stockpile mifepristone and take other steps.

你看到蓝州的初步措施是储备米非司酮以及采取其他措施。

A lot here is also going to depend on how the FDA ultimately uses its discretion and how much it goes after mifepristone, if that's ultimately the conclusion that the U.S. Supreme Court reaches in terms of whether it was properly approved or whether it's subject to the Comstock Act.

如果这是美国最高法院根据裁决是否得到了适当批准，以及其是否符合《康斯托克法案》而最终得出的结论的话，那么，这在很大程度上还将取决于FDA最终如何使用其自由裁量权，以及FDA在多大程度上想保留米非司酮。

Well, let's talk more about that because the FDA doesn't target every unapproved drug on the market.

嗯，让我们详细谈谈，因为FDA并不针对市场上所有未经批准的药物。

And there are some Democrats, there's some legal scholars who say that the administration should basically ignore the Texas ruling and that, given the conflicting order from Washington state, the FDA should use its discretion and not go after manufacturers that continue to provide mifepristone.

一些民主党人以及一些法律学者认为政府基本上应该忽略德州的裁决，考虑到华盛顿州的冲突命令， FDA 应该使用其自由裁量权，不去追踪那些继续提供米非司酮的制造商。

Is that a viable option? Is there any precedent for that sort of thing?

这是一个可行的选择吗? 这类事有先例吗?

Yes, I mean, I think the best analogy, often, if you think of prosecutors, for example, we're familiar with the idea of prosecutorial discretion, essentially, the idea being that, if you have a bunch of people violating the law, you only have so much time and so many resources.

是，我认为最好的类比是，如果大多时候想到检察官，比方说，我们熟悉检察官自由裁量权的概念，按本质讲，如果一群人违反法律，而拥有的时间和资源却有限。

And so you allocate those resources toward what you think are the biggest threats.

你会把这些资源分配给你认为最大的威胁。

And I think the FDA would be within its rights to say, look, we don't think mifepristone is a dangerous drug. We think it's safe and effective.

我认为FDA有权说，我们认为米非司酮不是一种危险药物，反而认为它安全有效。

And so while it's unapproved, we're not going to prioritize violations involving mifepristone in light of that.

鉴于没有批准，我们不会优先考虑涉及米非司酮的违规行为。

And that I think that discretion is used by the FDA somewhat often.

我认为FDA经常使用这种自由裁量权。

I think ignoring the court is a very different thing.

我认为无视法院是另一回事。

And I think Democrats advising that are on dangerous territory.

我认为民主党的建议很危险。

Discretion is different, because the FDA like a lot of other enforcement bodies, uses discretion all the time.

自由裁量权则不同，因为FDA和其他很多执法机构一样，一直在使用自由裁量权。

This Texas case has drawn scrutiny because of where and how it was filed.

德克萨斯州的这起案件因其立案地点和方式而受到关注。

When anti-abortion groups wanted to challenge the FDA's approval, they didn't file the lawsuit in Maryland, where the FDA is based.

当反堕胎组织想要叫板FDA批准药物时，他们没有在FDA总部所在地马里兰州提起诉讼。

They didn't file a lawsuit in any of the states where abortion is still legal.

他们没有在任何一个堕胎仍然合法的州提起诉讼。

They filed it in Amarillo, Texas, because they knew that it would end up before this particular judge.

他们在德克萨斯州的阿马里洛提起诉讼，因为他们知道案子最终会在这个特定的法官面前了结。

This idea of forum shopping or, I guess, in this case, judge shopping, how common is that? And is this a tactic that we should expect to see more of?

这种挑选法庭的想法，在这个案例中或许称作挑选法官，有多普遍? 这是我们预想到的更多战术吗?

Yes, I mean, forum shopping has been around for a long time and isn't unusual at all.

是，我是说，挑选法院已经存在许久了，而且并不罕见。

But I think what makes this judge shopping more unusual is the way Texas has organized its district courts.

但我认为，让挑选法官变得更不同寻常的是德克萨斯州组织地方法院的方式

For example, if you filed a lawsuit in Dallas, you wouldn't know which judge you were going to get.

打个比方，如果你在达拉斯提起诉讼，你不知道你会遇到哪个法官。

So you may think you would have a more favorable outcome in Dallas than in Maryland.

因此，你可能会认为达拉斯的裁决结果会比马里兰州的好。

But, beyond that, you couldn't predict exactly who would be hearing your case.

除此之外，你无法准确预测谁会来旁听你的案子。

The only district judge presiding in Amarillo is Judge Kacsmaryk.

阿马里洛(德克萨斯州城市)唯一的地区法官是卡斯马利克法官。

And so that meant that this suit was filed specifically with him in mind, because there was a belief, probably correctly, that he will be the most sympathetic federal judge in the country at the district level to these arguments.

因此，这意味着这个诉讼是专门针对这位法官提出的，因为有一种观点可能是正确的，即，他将是全国地区法庭中对这些争论最同情的联邦法官。

And I think that's a little worrisome just because you have not only forum shopping, but suits that are resulting in nationwide injunctions being filed before judges who are believed to be political or to have certain biases that will slant them one way or another.

我认为这有点令人担忧，因为不仅要挑选法庭，而且导致全国指令分歧的诉讼会被提交给那些被认为有政治倾向或有某种偏见的法官，这会使他们以某种方式向某个观点倾斜。

And I don't think that's good for the system.

我认为这对这个体系没有好处。

I also don't think it's good for the perceived legitimacy of the courts, which has also taken a hit in recent months.

我认为这对法院公认的合法性没有好处，近几个月来法院的合法性也受到了打击。

Mary Ziegler is a law professor at the University of California, Davis.

玛丽·齐格勒是加州大学戴维斯分校的法学教授。

Mary, thanks so much for your time and for your insights.

玛丽，非常感谢你抽出时间分享见解。

Thanks for having me.

感谢邀请我参加节目。