名人访谈录之Charlie Rose采访杨澜

主持人：这对中国意味着什么？他们来到城市，找到工作吗？找到机会吗？
Host: What does that mean for China? They are coming in. Are they finding jobs? They are finding opportunities?

杨澜：他们找到工作，也找到机会，但公共政策也需要为他们和他们下一代的需求做出调整。例如，地区城市怎么提供医疗服务、教育和住房给这些民工等等。他们是否应该与城市人一样被平等看待？很多的实践在进行中。在中国 300多个城市的人口超过百万。
Yang Lan: They are finding jobs. They are finding opportunities. But also public policy needs to be adjusted to suit the needs of them and their children. For example, how should the local cities provide medical services, education, housing to these migrant workers. Should they be treated equally as city residents? And so on so forth. So a lot of experiments are going on. In China, there are more than 300 cities with a population beyond 1 million.

主持人：300个城市有过百万人口？
Host: 300 cities with a population more than a million?

杨澜：如果你今天到中国的二、三线城市，会看到大量的工程在进行，还有更成熟的城市规划。你会看到成百上千的新剧院在兴建，还有博物馆、公园，等等；高速火车将很快连接整个国家并把它的交通提升到一个新的水平；你还会看到沟通速度的提升，还有信息的传播。我不知道这个国家将走向何方，但我想它会走向更开放，肯定是走向全球最大的经济体，我想它也是走向更开放的社会，并给年轻人提供更多的机会。
Yang Lan: If you visit second or third tier cities nowadays in China, massive construction, but also more sophisticated city planning. You see hundreds, thousands of new theaters being built, museums and parks and so on so forth. And the high-speed train will soon connect the whole country and raise it to another level of communication in transportation. So you will see the speeding up of communication and also the spread of information. I don't know what the country is heading for. But I think it is heading for a more open society. It's heading for the largest economy in the world for sure. I think it's also heading for a more open society. And also for young people, more opportunities.

主持人：为什么这个进程没有更快一些？
Host: Why doesn’t that take place faster?

杨澜：保持稳定是一个因素，试想3亿人口的流动。如果你看到那个场景，你会很惊讶，每年农历新年，有2亿人口回他们在边远地区的家乡，那是一个庞大人流。城乡收入差别也很大。年轻的大学毕业生可能无法负担大城市飙升的房价，市场上有商业房地产泡沫破裂的恐惧。是的，有各种忧虑和担心。我想保持社会稳定是一个大挑战和任务。你相信吗，作为媒体工作者，我有时想这个速度发展得太快了点。例如，土地的使用。我们可能是在滥用土地，把本该留给下一代的土地储备都用了。我们在一块土地上建立了那么多的东西，例如建筑物，很多其实很差迟早要被拆除，这对环境、资源和资金是多么浪费。我想社会是在开放，越来越开放。
Yang Lan: Instability is a big issue, if you have 300 million people migrating. If you see it, you will be astonished. Every year during Chinese New Year, there will be 200 million coming back home to their rural residence. That is the migration of a huge population. Also there is a huge disparity of income between the urban and rural areas. Young college graduates would be overwhelmed by the rising real estate prices in major metropolitan cities. The commercial real estate is in some fear of a bubble taking place. Yes, so you have all sort of worries and concerns. I think keeping the society together is a huge challenge and task. Believe it or not, as a media professional, I think sometimes the speed is a little bit too fast. For example, the usage of the land. Probably we are overusing it. We have used the land reserve that should be used for the next generation. But we had developed so many things on a piece of ground. The architecture for example. There are some very bad pieces that will be taken apart sooner or later. What a waste of environment resources and money into it. So I think the society is opening up and keeps opening up.

主持人：那么你担心什么呢？
Host: So what do you worry about your country?

杨澜：我担心该如何保持这样的发展速度？一方面要保持建设速度；一方面要保证年轻一代不会失去机会。最近我访谈了“蚁族”人士，那是用来描述新毕业的大学生的，以三千多元的月收入，就是工作 10 年甚至 20 年，他们也买不起房子。所以他们正失去希望，所以这个社会怎样才能始终给年轻一代创造成功的机会？难道只能保持原先的增长速度？房价必须稳定在大部分人可以承受的范围之内。
Yang Lan: Well, I worry about how do you keep pace with this development? With this construction. Without the younger generation losing opportunities. Nowadays, I did interviews with so called "tribe of ants", describing the new college graduates with an income of $500 a month, they cannot afford an apartment or a home within 10 years of or 20 years of employment. So they are losing their hope. So how can the society provide the young people with opportunity to succeed? Only if they maintain the growth rate they had? You have to maintain a reasonable real estate price for the majority of the population.

主持人：如何才能做到呢？
Host: And how do they do that?

杨澜：我也确实没有答案。
Yang Lan: I really don't have a solution for that.

主持人：不过我想这是件我担心的事情。过去很长一段时间，年轻的中国学生去了美国或者英国的大学，他们中的很多留下来了，一些回到了中国。所以现在中国有不少 40 多岁， 50 多岁在国外受过教育的人被邀请回国，回国参与国家发展。吸引力来自于国家荣誉感。你在那些离开中国去了美国，英国或者其他地方比如俄国并决定回国参与中国正在发生的剧变的人们身上看到这点么？
Host: But I think that's a concern for me. For a long time, young Chinese had gone to American university, to British universities, many of them stayed or some of them come back. So you have people now in their 40s and 50s with graduate education outside of China. And they are being asked to come back. To come back and take part. The appeal is out of national pride. Do you see much of that in people who left China for United States, or England, or other places like Russia, who have decided to come back to participate in this extraordinary transformation that's taking place.

杨澜：我认为爱国是一回事，另一方面是实现梦想的机会，而且我认为这是更具决定性的因素。
Yang Lan: I think national pride is one thing. Opportunity and a chance to realize your dream is another. I think it's a more decisive element.

主持人：机会比爱国更重要。
Host: Opportunity is a more decisive element than pride.

杨澜：是的，即便对于普通人也是如此。在美国，建筑师可以梦想在曼哈顿设计建造一座大楼，但是他会有多少这样的机会呢？在中国，有几十上百个城市需要设计它们的地标。
Yang Lan: I think so, even for ordinary people. For example, an architect here can aspire to build one major building in Manhattan. But how many opportunities can be offered to him? In China, you have dozens or hundreds of cities designing their landmarks.

主持人：大部分我认识的著名建筑师都在中国工作了。
Host: Most great architects I know are working in China.

杨澜：那是一块巨大的实验田，可以尝试各种风格和创造，年轻人当然愿意回去寻求各自立业成名的机会。当年轻的商业人士在美国时，他们目睹了各种各样在中国还没有的服务。他们可以回国，创办一个新的培训中心，一所学校，一家幼儿园。他们可以创办任何事业。用他们在欧美，或者世界其它地方学到的作为参考，在国内，他们可以白手起家，花几年的时间获得成功。我想这方面的诱惑比国家荣誉感更强。不过当然，爱国也是很重要的一个元素。
Yang Lan: It's a huge test land of all sorts of styles and creativity. Of course, young people like to go back, and to seek their success or have their name made. Also young business people, when they stayed here in the US, they see all sorts of services, which is still unavailable in China. They can go back home and start a training center, a school, a kindergarten. They can start anything, using the references that they learned here or in Europe, or anywhere else in the world. When back home, they can start something from scratch, and get successful in a few years' time I think that temptation is even greater than national pride. But of course, national pride is one element.