乔布斯与比尔盖茨最后一次同台对话

2007年，苹果创始人乔布斯与微软创始人比尔盖茨参与《华尔街日报》旗下数码科技网站主办的科技和媒体界的D5高峰会议，两人畅谈了微软与苹果的发展、彼此的看法还有世人眼中的种种误解。这是乔布斯与比尔盖茨最后一次的同台对话。5年过去了，就让我们来回顾一下这场经典的对话。

Host: The first question that I am kind of interested in asking what you think each has contributed to the computer and technology industry, starting with you, Steve, for Bill and vice versa.
主持人：第一个我挺感兴趣想问的是你们觉得彼此对计算机和科技行业的贡献分别是哪些乔布斯，你先来说说盖茨，然后再交换。

Jobs: I think the biggest thing was that Bill was really focused on software, before almost anybody else had a clue it was really the software.
乔布斯：最关键的一点是盖茨非常专注于软件而且是在大家都还搞不清什么是真正的软件时就开始了。

Host: Bill, how about the contribution of Steve and Apple?
主持人：盖茨，你说说乔布斯和苹果的贡献？

Bill: First, I want to clarify I am not fake Steve Jobs.
盖茨 ：首先我想澄清，我不是“假的乔布斯”（博客上的一个玩笑）

Host: Actually I looked at an Apple ad from 1978 It was a print ad that shows you how ancient it was. And it said, thousands of people have discovered the Apple Computer.
主持人：事实上，我还看了一个1978年的苹果广告是份印刷广告，所以可以看出这是多么久远前的事了.广告是这样说的，上千人发现了苹果电脑。

Jobs: We had some very strange ads back then. There was one that was in the kitchen. And there was a woman that looked like the wife, and she was typing the recipes on the computer, with her husband looking on approvingly on the back.Stuff like that…
乔布斯：那个时候我们确实有不少古怪的广告比如有一个广告取景在厨房有个看起来像是主妇的女人， 在用电脑输入菜谱，而他的老公在身后赞许地看着她.类似这样的...

Host: Some people here, but I don't think most people know there was actually a Microsoft software on that Apple II Computer. Do you want to talk about what happened there? How that occurred?
主持人：这里有些人可能知道，不过我想大多数人都不知道苹果二代电脑里其实还装了微软的软件。你能说说这是怎么一回事吗？是怎么发生的？

Bill：The original Apple II BASIC, the integer BASIC,we had nothing to do with it. And then there was a floating-point one,where I mostly worked with Woz on that.
盖茨 ：最早的苹果二代用的是基于整数运算的Basic操作系统，我们完全没有参与。后来改版成支持浮点运算的那个（就有微软参与了），这个项目主要是我和沃兹尼亚克一起做的...

Jobs: Let me tell the story. We are getting a lot of input that people want this BASIC to be floating point. Please! Please make this floating point. We are begging Woz.
乔布斯：让我来说这个故事吧，我们得到很多反馈，用户希望Basic操作系统能支持浮点运算，我们都在求沃兹尼亚克求求你！求求你让它支持浮点运算吧。

Host: Who is "we"? How many people at Apple?
主持人：这里“我们”指的是谁？有多少苹果的人这样要求？

Jobs: Well, me.We are begging Woz to make this floating point. He just never does it. He wrote it by hand on paper.
乔布斯：这个，其实就我一个。我们都求沃兹尼亚克让它支持浮点运算。他就是一直不肯做。他只是写在纸上。

Host: How much was it? I think you were telling us earlier.
主持人：苹果给了你多少钱？你前面好像提到过。

Bill: Oh, $31,000. For the floating point BASIC. And I flew out to Apple and spent two days there getting the cassette…The cassette tapes were the main ways people stored things at the time. And, you know, that was fun. So we were working together. The schedules were uncertain. The quality was uncertain. And the price...When Steve first came up, it was gonna be an a lot cheaper computer than it end up being. But that was fine.So we made this bet that this paradigm shift would be the graphic interface. Particularly the Macintosh will make it happen with 128K of memory. 22k of which was for the screen buffer, 14k was for the operating system.
盖茨： 哦，3万1千美金。来提供支持浮点运算的BASIC操作系统。我飞到苹果总部，花了两天的时间把那磁带搞定...磁带是那个时代的主要存储工具。你可以想象，那很有意思。我们在一起工作，没有确定的日程计划，没有明确的配置要求，价格也都还不定...乔布斯原来设想的电脑比最后实际推出的要便宜很多。不过这也没什么，所以我们赌了图形界面会是下一个革新，尤其是苹果电脑会用其128K的内存让这一切变成可能，屏显缓存22K，操作系统14K。

Host: 14K?!
主持人：14K?!

Bill: We were actually negotiating a deal to invest and make some commitment with Gil Amelio. Next thing I know, Steve called me and said, "Don't worry about that negotiation with Gil Amelio，you can just talk to me now."
盖茨： 那是我们正在和Gil Amelio（苹果当时的CEO）谈一笔投资交易后来没多久，乔布斯打电话给我说：“不用和Gil Amelio谈了，现在你可以直接和我谈了。”（乔布斯回归苹果了）

How do you look at yourself in this landscape today? You are competitors in certain ways. We watched the commercials.You get annoyed at each other from time to time. I have to confess I like the PC guy.
主持人：在今天的大环境下你们是如何看待彼此的？在某些方面，你们是竞争对手。我们都看了那些广告。你们都会时不时因为对方而恼火，我得坦白我挺喜欢那个广告里代表PC的人的

Jobs: Yes, he is great. I like him.You know the art of those commercials is not to be mean, but actually for the guys to like each other.
乔布斯：是啊，他很棒啊。我挺喜欢他的。说这些广告很艺术就是因为它们不是为了让PC和Mac相互苛求。而是让他们相互喜欢

Bill: Thanks!
盖茨：谢谢！

Jobs: PC guys are great.They got a great heart.
乔布斯：用PC的人很棒啊！他们心地善良。

Bill: In a few cases like the Zune, if you go over to that group. They think of Apple as the competitor. They love the fact that Apple has created a gigantic market. And they are gonna try and come in and contribute something to that. We love them, 'coz they are all customers. The same processors essentially that the Mac had this is one of those great ironies，that they were switching away from that processor, while the Xbox 360 was adopting it. But for good reasons, actually in both cases. We try and do things that way. So that was the development system for the early people getting their software ready for the introduction of Xbox 360.
盖茨： 有几个例子比如做Zune（微软的类似iPod产品）的那个小组。他们会把苹果当作竞争对手，他们为苹果创造了个那么巨大的市场而感到高兴，他们也会参与进来并努力作点自己的贡献，我们很喜欢他们，因为他们都是我们（iPod）的用户，（Xbox 360）用的是和Mac一样的处理器。这是我们认识上反差最大的事之一，在苹果放弃那个处理器的时候（该处理器在移动方面有欠缺）。XBox 360正开始采用它（XBox不需要移动应用）。不过两者虽然做法不同，但都有各自的道理。我们努力做到从实际需求出发。所以XBox早期员工就是用的这个开发系统来推出Xbox 360需要的软件部分。

Jobs: And we never ran an ad on that.
乔布斯：我们可从未为此打过广告。

Bill: I see. Admirable restraint. That's wonderful restraint.
盖茨：明白。有节制，很有节制。

Jobs: There were hundreds of them.
乔布斯：（尽管其他产品）我们有上百个广告。

Bill: Steve is so known for his restraints.
盖茨：乔布斯在“有节制”方面太出名了

Host: I assume you carry tablet PC.I don't know what brand it is. Maybe you change them up. I don't know. You obviously carry a Macbook Pro, I would guess.
主持人：我猜你随身会带个平板PC电脑，当然不知道是哪个牌子的。也许你换着用？我不清楚。你一定带着一个MacBook Pro，我猜。

Jobs: Yeah. Well, and an iPhone.
乔布斯：是的。而且还有一个iPhone。

Host: You have one?
主持人：你带了个iPhone?

Jobs: I do.
乔布斯：是的。

Host: Right here?
主持人：就在身边？

Jobs: Yes.
乔布斯：是啊。

Host: He has one. He took it out before. Really. Is the iPhone and some of the other smartphone. I know you believe the iPhone is much better than the other smartphones at the moment. But are these things.. are they just computers in a different form factor?
主持人：他带着。他前面还拿出来用过。iPhone和其他智能手机是不是就是...当然我知道你觉得目前iPhone比其他手机都要好很多。这些手机…他们是不是就是另一种形式的电脑呢？

Jobs: You know we are working on some things that I can't talk about
乔布斯：你知道我们正在开发一些我目前还不能谈论的东西（iPad?)

Host: Again.
主持人：又来了...

Jobs: Again, yeah.
乔布斯：是啊，还是不行。

Host: Very beautiful, yeah! There used to be a saying, isn't it at Apple… Gonna blow us away, though, when you can talk about it. Blow us away, wow, it's great. There used to be a saying at Apple
主持人：一定“超级美丽”（乔布斯产品介绍时常说的话）！从前有一句专门用来描述苹果的话...当你可以谈论那个东西时，一定会让我们“超级震惊”，“无与伦比”（都是乔布斯的口头禅）以前有一句话描述苹果的话是这样说的。

Jobs: Isn't it funny, a ship that leaks from the top?
乔布斯：一艘顶部会漏水的船一定很搞笑吧？

Host: That's kind of like a sweater without sleeves is a vest.
主持人：这就有点像说“没袖子的毛衣是背心”（等于白说）

Jobs: That's what they used to say about me when I was in my 20s.
乔布斯：（表情严肃）那是他们曾经用来说我的，当我还是20几岁的时候

Host: I am gonna ask a more personal question. We have just a minute before going to open up for questions. What's the greatest -I'm not gonna call this a Barbara Walters moment and ask you what tree you'd like to be, but…She would love to be Barbara Walters, let me just tell you. No, I would not. What's the greatest misunderstanding...
主持人：我要问一个更个人的问题，再一分钟我们就开始观者提问。你们之间最大的误会是…我不会把这个称为是芭芭拉·沃尔特斯（NBC著名主持人）时刻，问你想成为怎样的一棵树（芭芭拉曾问过赫本这个很“出名”的问题）。我插一句，其实她很想做芭芭拉·沃尔特斯，我没有。你们之间最大的误会是...

Jobs: Ding...
乔布斯：叮（时间到了）...

Host: Thank you, Steve.about your relationship? You're obviously gonna go down in history, history books already set, kind of thing. But what's the greatest misunderstanding in your relationship and about each other? What would you say about this idea of cat fight? Which one of the many?
主持人：谢谢你，乔布斯。 你们彼此关系上的最大误会是什么？毫无疑问你们会被记录史册，这段历史可以说已经尘埃落定，你们彼此之间最大的误会是什么？你对比如“猫狗大战”这样的说法怎么看，众多说法中哪个比较准确？

Jobs: We've kept our marriage secret for over a decade now.
乔布斯：我们秘密结婚的事已经隐瞒了十多年了。

Host: Canada! That trip to Canada!
主持人：加拿大！一定是去加拿大那次吧！（加拿大允许同性结婚）

Jobs: Generally, we were both the youngest guys in the room, individually or together. I am about 6 months older than he is, but roughly the same age. And now when we are working at our respective companies, I don't know about you, but I am the oldest guy in the room, most of the time. That's why I love being here.
乔布斯：一般来说，在那个时代，我们总是房间里最年轻的人,无论是单独还是我们一起的时候，我比他大差不多6个月，不过我们基本上算是一样大，现在我们在各自公司里，我不知道你怎么样，大多数时候，我是房间里最老的那个了。这也是为什么我喜欢来这里。

Host: Happy to oblige.
主持人：非常乐意你来。很乐意。

Jobs: I think of most things in life as either a Bob Dylan or a Beatles song. But there is that one line in that one Beatles song. You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead. That's clearly true here.
乔布斯：我认为人生中大部分事情都可以用鲍勃·迪伦或者披头士的歌来解释。有一首披头士的歌里就有这样一句“前方蜿蜒无边的路再漫长也比不上你我之间的记忆”这用在我们身上很确切。

Host: Sweet. You know what? I think we should just end it here. I now have a little tear right here. Thank you very much!
主持人：好温馨！我想我们应该就此打住，你说呢？我的眼眶都有点湿润了。非常感谢！