2008 美国总统竞选辩论(第一场)中英版

LEHRER: Senator Obama, you have a question for Senator McCain on that?

主持人：奥巴马议员，对麦凯恩议员刚才所说的有问题吗？
OBAMA: Well, let me just make a couple of points.

奥巴马：呃，让我指出几点来。

LEHRER: All right.

主持人：好的。
OBAMA: My definition -- here's what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut. And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime's worth of tax increase.

奥巴马：我的（关于富裕的）定义--这里是我可以告诉美国人民的：你们中的百分之95都将得到减税。而如果你的收入少于25万美元，每年少于25万美元，你将不会看到（哪怕是）一分钱的税收增加。
Now, John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he's absolutely right. Here's the problem: There are so many loopholes that have been written into the tax code, oftentimes with support of Senator McCain, that we actually see our businesses pay effectively one of the lowest tax rates in the world.

现在，约翰（麦凯恩）提到这个国家的商业税在纸面上很高的这个事实，他完全正确。问题是：我们有太多的漏洞写进了税务法，这些漏洞常常就是麦凯恩议员支持的，以致于我们国家的商业活动实际上缴纳是世界上最低的税率之一。

And what that means, then, is that there are people out there who are working every day, who are not getting a tax cut, and you want to give them more.

那意味着什么？那意味着那些每天工作的人们，他们没有得到减税，而你还想要从他们那里收取更多（税）。
It's not like you want to close the loopholes. You just want to add an additional tax cut over the loopholes. And that's a problem.

似乎你不是想要关闭那些漏洞。只是想在那些（免税）漏洞上（向富人）提供更多的减税。而那就是问题所在。

Just one last point I want to make, since Senator McCain talked about providing a $5,000 health credit. Now, what he doesn't tell you is that he intends to, for the first time in history, tax health benefits.

既然麦凯恩议员谈到了提供5000美元的退税（计划），我还想指出最后一点。那些他没有告诉你们的，那就是，他企图有史以来首次向医疗保险收税。
So you may end up getting a $5,000 tax credit. Here's the only problem: Your employer now has to pay taxes on the health care that you're getting from your employer. And if you end up losing your health care from your employer, you've got to go out on the open market and try to buy it.

所以你们最终也许能得到5000美元的退税。唯一的问题是：你们的老板现在得为向你们提供的医疗保险缴税。而且如果你们最终（由于老板不愿意缴税）而失去了你们老板所提供的医疗保险，你们只能到外面去自己给自己买一份。

It is not a good deal for the American people. But it's an example of this notion that the market can always solve everything and that the less regulation we have, the better off we're going to be.

这对美国人民来说可不是一件好事。但这就是采纳（麦凯恩的）这个观念一个例子。这观念认为市场可以解决一切问题，对市场的管理越少，我们的日子就会过得越好。

MCCAIN: Well, you know, let me just...

麦凯恩：呃，你知道，让我只是......

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LEHRER: We've got to go to another lead question.

主持人：（打断）我们得进入下一个引导问题了。
MCCAIN: I know we have to, but this is a classic example of walking the walk and talking the talk.

麦凯恩：（打断）我知道我们得（进入下一个问题）了，但（奥巴马）的行为是一个典型的做归做，说归说的例子。

（注：Walking the walk, and talking the talk。最早源自亚里士多德的追随者，他们通常一边走来走去，一边讨论着哲学问题。后来，这些人就被称为"Walk the talk"，即"实践着谈论"，因为他们的讨论就是在实践。而"Walk the walk"后来就指实践活动，"Talk the talk"则指高谈阔论。）
We had an energy bill before the United States Senate. It was festooned with Christmas tree ornaments. It had all kinds of breaks for the oil companies, I mean, billions of dollars worth. I voted against it; Senator Obama voted for it.

美国国会之前曾有过一个能源议案。它用圣诞树上的装饰品打扮得很好。它有着各种各样的向石油公司的减税，我指的是，价值几十亿美元的税。我投票反对了这个议案，而奥巴马议员投票支持了这个议案。
OBAMA: John, you want to give oil companies another $4 billion.

奥巴马：（插话）约翰（麦凯恩），你想要给石油公司另外40亿美元的减税。
MCCAIN: You've got to look at our record. You've got to look at our records. That's the important thing.

麦凯恩：（打断）我们必须瞅瞅自己的过去。瞅瞅自己的过去。那很重要。
Who fought against wasteful and earmark spending? Who has been the person who has tried to keep spending under control? Who's the person who has believed that the best thing for America is -- is to have a tax system that is fundamentally fair? And I've fought to simplify it, and I have proposals to simplify it.

谁在和浪费的拨款项目花销作斗争？谁是那个一直试图在控制花销的人？谁认为对美国最好的东西就是......就是一个根本上公平的税收系统？我一直在为精简（开销）而战斗，而且我提出了精简它的办法。
Let's give every American a choice: two tax brackets, generous dividends, and, two -- and let Americans choose whether they want the -- the existing tax code or they want a new tax code.

让我们给每个美国人一个选择：两个缴税等级（指富人和穷人缴纳不同的税率），高利息，还有，两个--让美国人民来选择他们想要哪个--旧的税务法还是想要一个新的税务法。
And so, again, look at the record, particularly the energy bill. But, again, Senator Obama has shifted on a number of occasions. He has voted in the United States Senate to increase taxes on people who make as low as $42,000 a year.

所以，再说一次，看看（奥巴马）以前的记录，特别是那能源议案。奥巴马议员在多个场合过改变（他的立场）。他曾经在美国议会投票支持向那些年收入只有4.2万美元之低的人增税。
OBAMA: That's not true, John. That's not true.

奥巴马：（插话）那不是真的，约翰。那不是真的。
MCCAIN: And that's just a fact. Again, you can look it up.

麦凯恩：（打断）那就是事实。我再说一次，你可以去查一下。
OBAMA: Look, it's just not true. And if we want to talk about oil company profits, under your tax plan, John -- this is undeniable -- oil companies would get an additional $4 billion in tax breaks.

奥巴马：听着，那不是真的。如果我们要谈谈石油公司的利润，在你的税收计划下，约翰（麦凯恩）--你否认不了--石油公司将得到额外40亿美元的减税。

Now, look, we all would love to lower taxes on everybody. But here's the problem: If we are giving them to oil companies, then that means that there are those who are not going to be getting them. And...

现在，听着，我们每个人都喜欢低税率。但问题是：如果我们给石油公司减税，那意味着另外一些人将得不到减税，而且......

MCCAIN: With all due respect, you already gave them to the oil companies.

麦凯恩：（打断）不好意思，你已经给那些石油公司减税了。